FOIE GRAS AGAIN!!

topic posted Mon, September 18, 2006 - 6:10 AM by  Arne
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I Just ready that Chicago, which had banned the cruelest liver on the planet, is going to be reevaluating the issue.

Some one should go and force feed the city council for a week and see how they feel!!!!

Man it makes my blood boil that people think they can just do whatever they want to whatever they want.........grrrrrr.

posted by:
Arne
Canada
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  • Re: FOIE GRAS AGAIN!!

    Sat, October 21, 2006 - 2:12 PM
    *shrug* dunno, Arne. It is certainly a controversy.

    I last ate fois gras over ten years ago -- a deliberate move based on the more-general exclusion of organ meats in my diet -- and, generally, don't miss it. I still lust a bit for some well-prepared sumaki.

    When I was much younger, I absolutely FOUGHT for the opportunity to clean hunters' goose kills in order to claim the fresh livers (which were, after all, not subject to the producers' force feeding programs). For a few pounds of those livers, I would also admit to some lust.

    I still do eat fresh veal every year or so, despite my visits to veal farms up in your neck-of-the-woods.

    But I can give up all of this - gladly - for relaxation of restrictions on fetal tissue research and its applications.

    It's just one opinion.

    Johnny
    • Re: FOIE GRAS AGAIN!!

      Sat, October 21, 2006 - 4:23 PM
      I hear ya. For me it is the comercialism that gets to me. I don't mind eating some well hunted organ meat, in fact I LOVE it.

      I can't get it into my head that we have to torture anything to eat well.

      Fetal tissue research eh? That is another bag of works altogether. I read that women in China where aborting their babies (6 to 9 months) for research. Guess how many boy babys that happened too.

      I truly feel that there will always be some people who are horrible and will move things along for the sake of science, or delicacies. I don't jugde them, as I don't know them, maybe if I had a chance to look them in the eyes, I might have a different feeling.

      We have to choose our battles, and right now I have to fight off the evil pepperoni and salami wantin' sub customers that don't like real food. I will win! I will!
      • Re: FOIE GRAS AGAIN!!

        Sat, October 21, 2006 - 8:46 PM
        Well, last-trimester abortions in China are likely to meet still another set of political/moral agendas altogether (along with the committed application of ball-peen-hammer blows to the skulls of female fetuses in the same country), but collection of legal abortion residue can save lives and prolong useful living for many others -- even if we are stepping a bit outside the intended scope of this Tribe discussion.

        What is important here re those poor, force-fed geese (and sensory-deprived veal, and -- ultimately -- every critter with a nervous system more-complex than a broccoli) are milestones along PETA's path to make us an exclusively-vegetarian society. Don't believe it? Look at PETA's website. Examine their source literature to find goose liver pate as a cause celebre along the way of our eventual "training" to become the compassionate stewards of all animal life on the planet. And absolute vegetarians.

        Is that wrong? I dunno. But while I am deciding, I remain at least a little cynical about folks who get too upset about PETA's current cause celebre. If the percentage of production attrition is too high, then encourage new/different husbandry techniques. If rodent control is a problem, then encourage fixing the problem. Legislating "fixes" as has been done so far is, well, an awfully "Californian" way of going about it -- and any place that requires fifty-or-so pages of explanation for an off-presidential-year's referenda is spending too much time voting.
        • Re: FOIE GRAS AGAIN!!

          Sun, October 22, 2006 - 12:40 AM
          <snip>What is important here re those poor, force-fed geese (and sensory-deprived veal, and -- ultimately -- every critter with a nervous system more-complex than a broccoli) are milestones along PETA's path to make us an exclusively-vegetarian society.<snip>

          Well, they're hardly the only big name force behind banning foie gras. Even so, I'm not into PETA for many reasons, but if you're an ethical carnivore, some of your views will still overlap with theirs. It's important to consider when they're involved with something, but you just have to judge it case by case. There's a difference between tortured and killed, and eating foie gras or veal ensures that an animal was tortured.

          On the other hand, there was a proposition in California a few years back that banned the consumption of horse meat by humans. I voted against it, and I knew many vegetarians and vegans who voted against it. It didn't stop horses from being mistreated, killed, or eaten by animals, it just legislated what people could consume. Screw that.
          • Re: FOIE GRAS AGAIN!!

            Sun, October 22, 2006 - 6:24 AM
            Hmm. Let's see if I can help with this.

            Actually, PETA is -- for all practical purposes -- the only "big name" behind the banning of foi gras in the U.S., and the only organication giving so much money into advertising their name and promoting part of their "work." Many other organications are more careful, both in their goals and their methodology. PETA is currently leading their website with their fois gras "successes" -- all of which count taking fois gras off the menu in individual localities and even individual restaurants rather than addressing any aspect of torture.

            PETA is rather easy to bash. The only important thing to remember here is that they don't really care about animal husbandry at all, or any specifics of the treatment of any animal, or any scientific aspect of the raising of any food animal. Again -- ultimately -- their goal reaches much further. It's a good thing, too, since their specific ability to care for animals has been called into question.

            "Eating fois gras ,,, ensures that an animal was tortured" ignores the body of evidence (supported by veterinarians and scientists) that geese and ducks do not have the "diver's reflex" (gag reflex), that force feeding is apparently pleasurable to the critters, and that -- within reasonable limits -- force feeding does not limit the mortality of geese and ducks about to be slaughtered for food.

            Yes, there are issues. Is the feed auger appropriate, or is the pneumatic feeding more humane? How much is too much?

            But when the question becomes something much more like "I don't eat fois gras, never have, and don't eat beef wellington either because I don't eat beef. Let's vote to ensure that nobody else can do any different." -- well, I offer that the question is the wrong question.

            eth‧ics  /ˈɛθɪks/
            –plural noun 1. (used with a singular or plural verb) a system of moral principles: the ethics of a culture.
            2. the rules of conduct recognized in respect to a particular class of human actions or a particular group, culture, etc.: medical ethics; Christian ethics.
            3. moral principles, as of an individual: His ethics forbade betrayal of a confidence.
            4. (usually used with a singular verb) that branch of philosophy dealing with values relating to human conduct, with respect to the rightness and wrongness of certain actions and to the goodness and badness of the motives and ends of such actions.

            I am, of course, only an opinion -- and may not be a popular one among a group of "ethical carnivores."

  • Re: FOIE GRAS AGAIN!!

    Sat, October 21, 2006 - 7:23 PM
    Who the hell repeals an anti-cruelty law?! I did some poking around on the internet, and the ordinance they are attempting to repeal only had one vote against it. So hopefully, this won't happen.

    But if you know anyone in Chicago (or anyone who wants to bug Chicago legislators, not that they're likely to give a rat's ass), you can direct em here:
    www.farmsanctuary.org/campaig...cago.htm

    This one's up there with veal IMO.

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